Good afternoon!
I have just come back from viewing a Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 (K3-VE2) which unfortunately was blowing white smoke and had the MIL lit for O2 sensor so had to leave it.
Though after driving it, I’m still on the hunt for one.
Ultimately I would be looking to swap that engine into an L251 Mira/Charade. Any advice on this swap would be greatly appreciated, and will be having a look through the forum for any related threads.
Many thanks!
Hi, And welcome, also from uk.
Hey mate Welcome to the forum.
as for your project the only one I know of that has been done it the one on skid factory on youtube.
I have been on track with that car at Queensland Raceway a few years back and it was quite quick.
Skid factory did not own the car it had been sold a couple of times by then.
There is not much info around besides what is on skid factory that I know of but then again I haven’t looked either.
Hi, thank you for the welcome.
I’ve found a thread from 2019 of someone attempting the swap (albeit with a K3-VET as opposed to the K3-VE2), and have replied to hopefully get an update.
I’ve watched that series to best try and understand what the swap entails. Seems as though physically mounting the engine involves swapping the timing cover from the M300 1.3 Sirion engine, and cutting and welding an additional mount from the M300. Unsure on subframe.
With regard to ECU, electronics etc, I believe the Skid factory used a standalone ECU, but I’d like to understand if the swap is feasible without a standalone ECU. Hopefully will get a response on the aforementioned thread.
I am very much a novice with regard to engine electronics, ECU etc so I may not have realistic expectations currently. Hopefully someone can enlighten me.
Skid factory used a standalone ecu as they added a turbo. You would be able to use the stock ecu. With using the stock ecu you will need the ecu, immobiliser, the key and the key reader for it to work. Using the loom that comes with it would be a good idea to I would imagine.
I’d suggest the electronics will be simple, just use the ECU, loom, sensors and everything from the K3-VE2 engine. You would be sensible to use the instrument cluster from the donor too.
Issues I can foresee would be clearance for the steering column or rack placement; almost certainly you will need custom or significantly modified driveshafts, especially if you end up using a 3SZ-FE gearbox; you will want to fit the best brakes you can, which will necessitate changing the hubs and probably front struts; wheel clearance issues potentially with bigger brake calipers & discs.
All of this is solvable, but it is expensive fabrication work by skilled professionals, not a lego set.
What I would suggest is zooming out a bit and asking why you want to fit a K3-VE2 into an L251. You’re still not going to have that much power and its a monumental amount of work. The brakes will be rubbish, unless you do something like an MX-5 conversion which is possible, but not for the faint-of-wallet, the engine is comparatively heavy so you’ll likely not gain anything over an EJ engine power-to-weight wise.
However, what I will say is that for a lot less money and engineering headache, you can make the car handle fantastically well. With Daihatsu’s of any type, the huge advantage you have is low weight, so making a car that handles well allows you to put the power down far earlier, brake later and turn in far more sharply than anything else comparable. One of the lightest cars you can buy today is the VW Up! family, with 60bhp on tap with the 1.0 MPI engine - thats the same as a serviced EJ-DE - but you have a 200kg (20%) weight advantage in a stock L251! Take out the rear seats, swap the spare tyre for some goo, fit some lightweight alloys wheels from something like a mk1 MX5 and you’ll have another 50KG (5%) advantage.
Fit some bracing from a tuning firm like Ultra Racing, polybushed suspension, some performance brake pads and discs from Black Diamond, maybe a rear sway bar and some semi-slick tyres like Nankang NS-2Rs (total budget here £600 at most) and you will have a total B-road blaster that will humble some considerably more expensive cars. You won’t win a drag race but you’ll have a car that you can hustle along a B-road at an impressive lick. Got a bigger budget? Bilstein dampers, lowering springs and a lightened flywheel (maybe another £600?) will have something that will win trophies at Autosolo events.
Play to the Daihatsu’s strengths and you can make a very impressive car indeed for relatively little outlay. Fitting a bigger engine or turbocharging it is looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
Where abouts are you in the UK? I’m in South Hampshire, if you’re nearby then give me a shout and you’re welcome to come and try out my M101 Sirion Rally with the 110bhp K3-VE2 engine and some handling mods to see what its like. All the modifications I have done have been on the handling side, I’ve felt no need to add any more power, and 80% of the time I’d have as much or more fun with 75bhp on tap - not least that the brakes are not really up to the job!
Hi Granger,
Apologies for the delay in reply, I didn’t realise I had other replies to this, and thank you for your detailed response.
I am basing my engine choice off this being a common swap for the L700, with numerous people enjoying the upgrade from standard power, and the L251 being only 25kg heavier stock. Personally, I prefer the look of the L251 over L700, it is slightly more modern, and there are more examples for sale in the UK. Also I would want a 3-door, and I haven’t seen a 3 door L700 for sale in the UK for a long time. I’ve had a relatively quick search for comparative engine weights, have found 95kg for the 2SZ-FE engine, but not found for the EJ-DE. Even if the EJ-DE was say 50kg, and allowing additional weight for the gearbox/ancillaries of around 25kg, the power to weight ratio would go from (from 60HP/0.74T = 81 BHP/T to 101HP/0.81T = 125BHP/T), so around 54% increase. I know I am estimating numbers above (and feel free to correct me on these), but I feel it would give a good increase over stock. But you raise a valid point about the potential amount of work required for a modest increase in power.
The Skid Factory build series starts after the K3-VET engine has been fitted to the car, but in Al’s words, they “Frankensteined” the engine into the car. I’m not sure if there is any way of contacting Al to get more details, even if it was a few years ago.
That being said…
I take on board your points about getting the most out of the stock engine and working on handling upgrades before power upgrades. In the first instance, I will look to buy the car, service and sort any bits that may need sorting, and get a feel for the car before modifying. The main point for me buying the car is to have a fun daily driver that I can take on B-roads for a blast at the weekend. And I am a firm believer of Colin Chapman’s design philosophy, which is why I’m looking at Daihatsus in the first place. After having the car for a bit and getting the most out of the EJ-DE, I may still want to look at the K3-VE2 swap, but only time will tell.
Thank you for your suggestions on modifications, and for your insights. I am definitely a novice in the world of Daihatsus, so any advice is greatly appreciated.
And thank you very much for the offer to try out your Sirion Rally 2. I’m Suffolk based, so would be a little bit of a trip for me, but I will bear that in mind if I have plans to come down that way.
Also were you selling an MOT fail Sirion Rally 2 on FB marketplace a few weeks ago? It may have been someone else, but it was in South Hampshire and I was considering it as an engine donor, but it disappeared before I had a chance!
Many thanks.
Thank you for the info, useful to know.
No problem, you are welcome!
You’re right re the L700 here in the UK. I owned the UK press demonstrator S201 UKL for about 18 months, nearly 15 years ago and it was incredibly rusty then! It had had both sills replaced and patched and were looking decidedly fragile again. Its a shame, because it was a great car to drive with the 989cc EJ-DE engine, but my word, they rot in the UK climate!
Interesting that you mention Colin Chapman, and IMHO that is exactly the mindset to adopt for these cars - you don’t need big power if your car is small, light and nimble. I intend on looking into the suspension of my Sirion in due course, and see what can be done with the ‘soft springs, well damped’ philosophy, especially on the front of my car which I think is overly stiff on stock Rally 2 setup.
Something to have a look at in terms of low cost and easy installation would be some Ultra Racing chassis stiffening - have a look at their Malaysian site here: https://www.ultraracing.my/products/?s=&wpce_search=268955&post_type=product
The Perodua Viva is the MY market L250/1 - Ultra have a UK office but don’t list L250/1 kit. When I wanted some bits for my Sirion it was cheaper and easier to buy from MY and have it FEDEX’d to the UK. If you keep the order value including shipping under £130 then there isn;t VAT or customs duty to pay, so it can work out cheaper to place a few orders vs one big one.
Interesting that you mention Suffolk, where abouts? I grew up just outside Stowmarket and still have family there. I’ve not taken the Sirion up there yet, but if I do I’ll give you a shout.
It wasn;t me selling the MOT fail Sirion Rally 2, they do pop up from time to time though. There is an active facebook group for them run by a very knowledgeable guy called Phillip Harris who rallies them - they are/were very popular for clubmans rallying, but there are only about 15 left on the road now. I suspect there are a few more which have been rally-spec’d to the point they’re still around but not used on the road, but I think a lot of them died of rust or bring driven sideways into trees!
For suspension polybushing, try Polyurethane auto parts for DAIHATSU MIRA L250 2007 - though paying them can be a challenge to pay them as they are Russian and making international payments to them is tricky
Keep us updated on how the car develops!
Some more great info here, thanks. When I look to purchase those upgrades I will likely drop you a message regarding ordering etc if I have any queries.
I’ve been scouring FB marketplace, eBay, gumtree and autotrader. Most 3 door L251’s I’ve seen are automatics. There is a nice low mileage 3 door manual for sale with FSH, but is the light purple colour which is a pity as any other colour (except pink) and I’d have gone straight for it.
Once I buy the right car I’ll start a new thread.
Thanks again