EF vs EJ external dimensions

My “new” Daihatsu has an EF engine in it that makes a miserable amount of power - I want to swap it for some more capacity and probably a turbo (build my own kit, ECU, etc), but fitment may be an issue.

I know that the bell housing pattern matches based on forum chatter that I’ve read, however what’s not clear is what the top end is like in terms of space occupied compared to an EF 12v (same?) or an EF 6v (12v is bigger?).

If anyone knows this intimate detail I’d be interested in your input :slight_smile:

My particular Daihatsu has limited space around the engine so I’m not 100% sure it’ll fit even though I know it’ll fit :slight_smile:

Cheers, Fred.

[quote=“FredNZ, post:1, topic:5424”]…My particular Daihatsu has limited space around the engine…[/quote]Which Daihatsu doesen’t? :grin: There are several threads pertaining to such swaps. Unfortunately, the search engine can’t work with any input shorter than 4 alphabetical letters. Some browsing and digging will be required

I don’t know for sure, but I suspect my “new” daihatsu has even less room than most and it’s certainly more rare than most :slight_smile:

I do like the idea of a slightly cammed up higher revving EJ-DE though, 100hp should be easy and will be ample for this vehicle. :slight_smile:

At the high-end, indeed. The drawback would be the loss of low-end torque. I was also debating replacing the head on my ED with one of those multi-valved types. Having an automattic transaxle, a project of this sort wouldn’t be practical for city driving. For overtaking other vehicles, though, such a swap would be super.
Daihatsus also suffer from long-legged manual gear boxes, except maybe those installed in the Copens? Multi-valved engines are more suitable for either close-ratio 5-speed boxes or for at least a 6-speed in a Daihatsu

I agree, and if it would fit, I could see turbo + J160 altezza box, but I’m not sure if it would fit, either and it would increase the weight a fair bit. Have I given too much away? :smiley:

Size wise the EJ-de is same as ef-el. My std ej had four times the torque of the ef and more than double the power. What more the torque was down low and didn’t drop off much as the revs rose. Instead of cams I retarded them to get top end power. Go for a super light flywheel by machining down and having the ef one balanced. Std clutches won’t stand a chance.


My opinion, turbo the ef 12v. lots of fun with such a high revving engine. the ej is such a boring engine, the power falls off so hard… we’ve had a stock ef and stock ej side by side in mexico and it was neck and neck to the point the ef was pulling away due to the high rpm limiter. My opinion that the swap is so over rated so the draw backs you have. Less rpm, power falls off hard and hard to find a good used one that doesn’t burn oil. But if you spend 5+k and turbo it correctly with a stand alone ecu and internal supporting mods they make an easy 120hp.

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I don’t actually yet know how many valves my EF has - but I do know that more is better :smiley: Most of my 20 cars are multi-valve chamber types and the highest revving is 8400 right now, but a few will go more later with lots of mods. One is 8000 RPM and 18psi - also 2 litres, it’s FAST.

What sort of RPM do you see from a 12v EF?
What sort of RPM do you see from a 12v EJ?

EJ is still short stroke by big engine standards and could reliably rev to 9k if valve springs and rods were right. But just because an engine is short stroke that doesn’t mean the OEM will leverage all of that capability in their design.

But it does mean you can when you modify one.

Not keen on turbo without a trans swap as the one in it is hyper rare and probably glass-jaw weak.

It’ll be about 2 months until I can know a lot about my situation and perhaps even share what the beast is, sorry to say. But I’m super excited because I’ve been dreaming of owning one since I was a kid at school when they were released. Reality soon :smiley:

About the “torque down low” - not bothered, would rather have lots of torque from 4-8k than 1-4k - if I’m at 2k I don’t want to go fast, if I’m at 7k you bet your arse I do. :slight_smile:

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My experience, as opposed to pure opinion, has been different. The ef will only rev but never make power and has no torque. We did some dyno pulls years ago and the ef-el made a fraction of the power of an ej-de. The ef head is a lousy design. I have cut both heads up cross sectioned along the ports. The ej has a more vertical port that mimics the best of Cosworth. It also uses a better piston shape. The dome piston of the ef-el requires far more spark timing (it copies best practice before Cosworth and Honda came upon vertical ports, combustion chamber squish and tumble as opposed to swirl). Fuel is burnt too early to be efficient in the efel (do some dyno testing, you can make them rev harder and harder but power tappers off and then they just make lots of heat, you’ll end up with spark being 35-40deg btdc). As a result the flame has to travel a long way before it pushes down. EFImira (who pioneered the ej-de into l200 and did a ton of research and dyno work) was doing std unopened ej-de with a standalone wolf ecu, custom manifolds and turbo with a reliable 130fwhp. If an ej-de is not pulling the same revs as your ef-el then something is wrong. Similarly if you’ve an ej-de burning oil it not been looked after, much like the dozen or more ef-els I have had, each one an oil burner.

I’d call torque at 4000rpm low down torque. The ef-el as an na would need to have an ed10 bottom end to get enough compression to use decent pistons and have the capacity to needed to bust its way out of a wet paper bag. Step one for the ejde to make if feel revvy is a light flywheel. Use an L200 flywheel, should easily be able to machine it sub 4kg (you can go further). For the ej-de you can use gsxr pistons with custom Argo rods to get your 9000rpm. Tighe Engineering for the cams to do this (even advancing the cams 7deg will wake an ejde up). I can’t remember what they were from but there are off the shelf Ti valves, Ti retainers and beehive springs off of something else that fit. The ef-el is going to have valve train problems at those revs due to the mass of the rocker arms, springs and valves.

The box to use is the ejde box from the L700. They fit with some fabrication, custom drive shafts and are much stronger than the trxx box. But you’ll need a Cusco lsd to stand any chance of putting power down. Better yet a Sadev box.

I am not going to make any more comments and will bow out of this thread. You are looking at an expensive exercise and it is not clear what the final application is for. Your talk of rpm sounds like you are street or drag racing. Good luck.

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Please don’t bow out of the thread - I appreciate your input - I have zero experience with Daihatsus other than beating the snot out of a courtesy car for 48 hours only to give it back with clicking CVs - it was a lot of fun - in the wet, 4 up, 2nd gear drop, spinning until the car caught up with the revs, ha ha. It was a tiny 5 door Mira I think, and likely an econo grade engine, but it was fun :slight_smile:

My vehicle is not a Mira, that’s all I’m saying for now. Apparently it can’t even do 100kph :smiley: Hence immediately researching power upgrades.

With the stock gearbox I would want RPM over torque to preserve the box. I have another vehicle in the same boat. Has a box worthy of about 250hp so I’ll make that NA from 2.3l 80mm stroke 8000+ RPM and the box will only see about 15% more torque and will live a long time - if turboed it would not live well at all.

I have experience with and currently own:

Volvo (all old, RWD, except an XC90 T6 donor/off road hack)
VW (air cooled, x2)
Toyota (KP60 and AE101 carib wagon)
And as of tonight, Honda (Gyro Canopy, ha ha)

Two serious engine swaps under my belt amongst all of that, but I know what I don’t know, hence joining this forum to learn from those who do :-). May as well share a photo of one:

I did all the work, except balancing the flywheel after I machined it and having the pressure plate refulcrumed when the turbo rx7 clutch couldn’t hold the torque I was making :smiley: machined fabricated etc - I ever wrote the code that runs the engine :smiley:

But I bow to you lot on Daihatsu until I’ve cut my teeth and earned your respect with grease on my fingers :smiley:

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i just noticed the car we’re speaking about now isn’t an L200. sorry haha.
Would need to know what it is with weights etc… My guess is a Hijet based on the (can’t do 100) but the early hijet came with a cb and newer from memory has a type of ef (660) Completely different to the L200 version of the ef…

Look forward to see what you have :slight_smile:

Post reinserted from email, good post, why did you nuke it? Relevant or not doesn’t matter, just here to learn and share :slight_smile:

I personally daily drive my 5 door mira with the ef 12v. you can check my thread out (Molly the 4door)

I am a sucker of a high revving small engine. 9.2k rpm and it pulls all the way to red line, A complete blast in the hills.
Dead stock i made 33.3hp on a dyno. before the mods it would struggle under 5k rpm and peak around 7k.
With a long intake and a basic piggyback to trim the fuel out and running fairly advanced timing on 98 (they almost flood the engine below 5k due to on off tps) now i pull from around 3k with the fuel trimmed out at low rpm.

The EJ swap is really common as it is a super simple bolt in and wire up job using all factory l200 mounting.
Whilst it does give you a bit more power down low every single one i’ve driven and raced just hit a wall with the power delivery above 5k.

It is all a personal opinion and what you like more, a real kei engine true to its name with high rpm and size and a blast to drive. or a engine that is just another 1ltr

I also love revvy engines, but I feel like almost anything that can breath well can be made to rev hard - short stroke is the only hard requirement.

Not a HiJet - though I do like those little vans and trucks <3

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^ that’s not what I posted and it’s not what Luke originally posted - it’s close enough still but an admin has modified it. Fair warning to anyone reading. My words unchanged, quoted exact post no longer exact. Been a long time since I had that happen to me, one thing I don’t miss about forums. I run mine hands off.

Mate I changed it. I did not change Luke’s post it was gone before I looked and saw it. I presume he deleted it as it said “post deleted by author”. I took one line out in your copy/reply of his post that could have caused a potential shit storm between 2 valuable member’s who hold different opinion’s and who I love dearly and are valuable livetodai member’s.

All I did was prevent anything from blowing up and having to deal with the aftermath. I was going to pm and let you know but as I was busy this morning and was in a rush I hadn’t done it yet.

I have not changed anyone’s post in a very long time and this is not a regular occurrence. Facebook is no different just admins can delete you whole post instead.
I think most member’s have been around long enough to know that myself or any of the other admin are not out for favorites and to mod and change all posts how they see fit. It is rarely done at all.

If this makes you uncomfortable then it is up to you if you like it here or not. Whatever you choose you are most welcome here.



Jimmy, excellent reply, I understood why you’d done it knowing what was in it, but IMO that was a very gentle statement you removed and was unlikely to cause such a shit storm unless the other party was very much oversensitive :smiley:

I posted the way I did because it was no longer the post I’d put up and it was no longer the original post that Luke put up and I wouldn’t want anyone to read it and think it was so: fair warning to them. The rest was just my heart on sleeve feelings.

I’m relieved that you operate the way you describe, that’s great to hear. Happy to stay, nothing to lose by doing so except some time and lots to gain, maybe even some new friends :slight_smile:

Thanks for the response, very much appreciated. The forum software is really good, too - it shows who did it and what the change was just like a github diff on a file - very nice.


thankyou for your reply. I have learned over the years of being an admin on forums that the old saying that “less is more” can be very appropriate and I have made mistakes and I usually apologize publicly for it if I have. We are all here for the love of these awesome little cars and to help each other along the way. That was always my and many others’ vision for this community.
I cannot take credit for the software @FrAsErTaG is our genius IT superstar.


Great attitude, 11/.10 - now I need to go figure out where to post a very old Daihatsu I just found. One moment, caller.

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Could always get an EF-JL. Factory 660 12 valve EF-EL Turbo Intercooled with better internals for boost that revs over 9k and flies along nicely. Plus proper Kei spec rather than a 1L or 850cc so bonus cred.

Definitely a Jap one, look how black it is inside! :smiley: May be okay in spite of that though. Seals are the worst things, but I’ve seen one engine totally self destruct because of disturbed carbon and a tiny filter that blocked totally from the carbon. Always be careful with grubby engines. Kei is nice, but I honestly care more about how it drives and how it looks than the CC rating - it’s not in Japan any more, so it’s no longer relevant :smiley:

Update, will have it in-hand end of Feb :slight_smile: visiting for Auckland based kiwis available from them, PM me for an appointment. In person trumps social media to start with for sure fun/surprise factor :slight_smile: